Rep. Morgan Luttrell, a former Navy Seal and Republican congressman in Texas, might not seem like the person you would expect to lead federal policy reform on psychedelics. He might not have either, if his own experience using plant-based medicines hadn’t been so positive.
Luttrell said that he had experienced the transformative effects first-hand of 5-MeO DMT at a clinic he visited in Mexico in 2018. He compared it to removing a “500 pound rucksack”, which he felt was weighing him down after a traumatic head injury resulting from a helicopter accident.
In a telephone interview, the congressman said that his experience was “very aggressive” in comparison to other people he knows, such as his twin brother Marcus who is a Navy SEAL veteran, Purple Heart winner and fellow Navy SEAL.
The “horrific treatment” he had previously described was profound and life-changing. He now believes that this novel therapeutic option, which he has never seen before, should be available to those in mental distress in the U.S.
Luttrell, who has a background in neuroscience and cognition research, wants science to be the guide for policy. To that end, he laid the groundwork for the National Defense Authorization Act Amendment (NDAA), which required the Department of Defense to carry out clinical trials to determine the therapeutic potential of psychedelics in active duty military.
He says that he will be meeting military leaders soon to “more or lesser create expectations” for the $10m research initiative. He is optimistic about the potential and intends to build on the reform to eventually give people access to clinically-administered psychedelics. He’s protective of the process, but he also believes that attempts to decriminalize Schedule I drugs in a broad way as a interim step would undermine the research-led method.
Many people asked him, when he began advocating the issue on Capitol Hill: “What is an ‘extremely conservative man’ doing with psychedelics policies?”
He would tell them, “I know I’m a conservative.” This saves lives. It’s a safe, effective way to change the landscape of medical practice.
Luttrell spoke with Marijuana moment last week about his experience and hopes with psychedelics. This interview has been edited to make it more concise and clear.
Marijuana moment: In a time when partisanship is at an all-time high in Congress, how did it feel to have your psychedelics amendment to the NDAA adopted by both chambers of Congress and signed into law as a law by President Obama?
Morgan Luttrell : Shocked is not the right word, because we are in Washington, D.C., however, I was a little surprised that it passed both chambers, and then became law. We spoke to all the members of both parties. We did not discriminate when we had these conversations, simply because this was so important. I believe that the group as a whole understands the need to evolve in our treatment of veterans and service members. It will, of course, transcend these places and become global. I’ve just magnified that dramatically.
What motivated you publicly to disclose your experience with 5-MeO DMT and Ibogaine? How important is transparency to you in getting your colleagues to listen to this and pass the research amendment?
ML Due to my research background and the way I presented it, but also because I am a veteran and have been through the treatment myself, this gave a relative perspective to those members who didn’t know what was going on due the narrative created in the past about these medications. It was difficult to convince people that the guy in front of them is just a normal guy who believes in what these medications can do.
I’m a quiet guy. I consider myself a pretty quiet guy. But I felt that I had to share my experiences in front of everyone and show them what I have accomplished. I hope that it will mean something that someone can appreciate, like “This guy served the military, did the things he has done, went through the academic part of it, did the research, and he is promoting the statistics.” I think we can all stand behind that.”
It was inevitable that this would happen.
What was it like for you and how did the process work?
ML This pretty much describes it. It’s different for everyone–everybody’s experience with the medications–because it’s so involved with the person. My experience was totally different from my brother’s. It was amazing. I mean, my life was changed forever. The experience itself was difficult for me because I am a straight-edge guy, who has never used drugs, never smoked, and I have never done anything like that.
You know, when I was researching in school and visiting centers that focused on emotional instability, cognitive deficits, or traumatic brain injuries, you knew, these therapies weren’t overly aggressive. These therapies weren’t aggressive. You’re in it for the experience. There’s no getting in the ring, and then leaving. You’re stuck in the ring until you finish your medication, whether it is good, bad, or neutral. I had a very aggressive experience compared to some people’s casual stroll down the street.
Everyone’s transition will be different. You can see the result of their journey on the backside.
What was the exact moment when you realized that the treatment had worked? How did you evaluate your success?
ML : About an hour after. I was sitting on a beach, with hundreds of other people. I felt very comfortable. I am normally in a protected state. In Mexico, I didn’t know the language. I would have been in a very vulnerable position. The medication helped me release that.
It’s been said that guys like us don’t, you know…safe our weapon system. We are always on alert. I was able to relax and let my weapon hang on my chest.
Then you have to go on from there. It was only the beginning. It’s something you can work on daily, right? My experience was aggressive, so I would say it was an exorcism. Then, when all was said and done and I took that first deep breathe, you are like “Man, I have just released a lot.” It’s a therapy in three days kind of thing. Where is it?
It was as if I had literally unloaded a 500-pound backpack. You feel good in your shoulders and chest. You don’t feel the weight on your mind. You’re like “Oh, good. This is a good start.
What are your expectations regarding the DOD clinical trial that will be conducted under your legislation, given that you have had this experience and that others, including your brother, have also benefited from these novel treatments?
ML This is a touchpoint. I don’t think it should be hung on the wall, or placed between two bookends. I want to see these medical professionals, clinicians, and psychologists actually working with our servicemen and veterans. They should be able to go through treatment and get the results. It’s not “Hey, lets just talk about this.” It’s pointless to say, “Let’s move in a particular direction and do some research without touching anyone.”
We did not work so hard to pass the legislation, get the funding to save, protect, and reorient lives. Our aggressiveness in this area has not slowed down or stopped. We remain very forward-looking.
I want it to grow so that people understand that “Hey, we’re doing this now.” It is important to do this correctly. It is for this reason that the research is clinically-based. DOD and VA could lead the way by utilizing their assets, medications, and achieving results.
Why did it matter that active duty soldiers participated in the trials as opposed to veterans
ML When working with veterans, we find that they are already damaged. When they finally reach them, there are brains and broken bodies.
Now I am speaking to you in my capacity as a researcher. When I worked with veterans, I would say things like “Hey, I don’t know what you’ve done, where you’ve been or what you’ve seen. All I know is that your mental health is severely damaged.” And I’m trying you get back to a baseline which doesn’t really exist because we’ve never tested it.
We can catch up with them on the way. As they are already here, we can start baselining them in the active space. “You’re good, you’re clean. There is nothing presented. “You go on deployment and you are in a training progression. You get injured on the weekend. We have a significant brain injury. We have some kind of emotional loss. So we test you.”
We can now see that the glide paths are starting to form. We already know this. Now we can stop individuals from falling. It’s a preventive medicine that allows us to not only prevent, but also prevent an issue. It could inevitably reduce the number [of long-term patients]. I’m always gonna be optimistic. We’ve just cut those numbers in half. Over 6,000 veterans [died by suicide] in the past year. That’s terrible. This is yet another tool we are adding to our toolbox in order to assist our servicemen.
MM: Did you have any conversations with leaders of the military or other people who will be involved with conducting these trials. Do you feel that the proposal has been met with any opposition?
ML I have had some conversations with senior management, and I am aware that more will be scheduled at the end of this or early next months. I’ll need to meet them and create expectations, if that is what you want. Sincerly, I have no idea what that would look like. As legislators we did our job, but it is now up to the people at which level in any space or branch will be receptive.
What happens if the results of the trials show that this is a safe and effective treatment option? Do you think it would be sufficient to start rulemaking with the FDA for some sort of prescription drug approval if more studies were done on a larger population?
ML : FDA is currently moving parallel to MDMA, which should be approved in this year. Then other drugs, hopefully on the way up to scaling this thing.
I take small steps because I do not want to fall off track. It’s one of those things that if anything goes horribly wrong–which is not what I am saying, but I am speaking out loud- I would hate to lose it. As it progresses and people begin to see the positive results, I’ve thought a lot about the footprint. We can add a psychedelic facility, or we will just work with Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Walter Reed could have private psychedelic treatment? You can also go to Hawaii, Texas, the West Coast, etc.
Who knows what the FDA will look like, or how pharma will develop?
It could take many years to get people accessing these substances. Would you support legislation that decriminalizes these substances in the interim so that people seeking this experience during formal approvals is not subjected criminal enforcement action.
ML No I am not trying to jump in front of the horse. This is moving too quickly. This needs to be kept within the left-right axis so that these things do not happen. I’ve talked to a lot people who said, “Hey look, we do not want this to expand and we lose our control like we did with opioids.” We’re replacing the opioids due to the problems we see with these narcotics.
MM: How about administrative reform? DEA is currently evaluating a recommendation by HHS that marijuana be moved from Schedule I of the Controlled Substances Act to Schedule III. Do you believe agencies should reevaluate their scheduling of other plant-based medicines, such as ibogaine, while these trials continue to take place?
ML This conversation took place in the committee last year and I responded, “Hey pump the brakes.” Let’s lay the concrete first. I am very hesitant to say yes because I want us to be sure we have everything in place before saying, “Alright hey, here are the absolute outcomes.” These are longitudinal studies which show this. Now let’s talk about reclassification.
This is why I will always go back to the same thing: I won’t let this get out of hand and I won’t move too quickly on this, because it benefits us so much. We’re done if it becomes a complete 1960.
MM: Although we are talking about research here, it may surprise some people that conservatives such as yourself would not only support but lead the way on psychedelics reform. In Congress, GOP members have traditionally been the biggest obstacle to cannabis reforms, whether for medical or scientific purposes. How can we reconcile that? What makes this issue so bipartisan?
ML Presenting the numbers. I am really deconstructing the science. I am a scientist, a member in Congress, and a veteran. I speak multiple languages. They’re uncomfortable. And I understand their point of view. I do 100 percent.
In Texas, I wouldn’t let this go. I wouldn’t say “hey, look, let’s run with it” when it comes THC. But the results in the medical field are very significant. As a scientist, I find that very impressive.
It was a challenge to get it into the NDAA and it will remain that way. Many people said, “Whoa! Hey, you’re an extremely conservative guy.” “What’s happening here?” I know I’m conservative but this is saving lives. This is changing the face of medicine in a safe and effective way. Five years ago I would have said I didn’t even want to be having this conversation.
What do you think will happen to this issue in 2024, according to your vision? Have you any plans to introduce new legislation or lend your support to other proposals already in place?
ML I will continue pushing forward. I will continue to grow this. I don’t want to beg for anything, but we need to support clinical research to move forward. It’s my responsibility to make that case to the committee.
MM: Oregon and Colorado have taken steps to legalize psychedelics services, which are being actively implemented as a result of ballot initiatives approved by voters. What do you think the states will do in future election cycles?
ML You can see how these two states operate. In Texas, it’s important that I follow the rules. Sincerly, I’m not able to speak with any authority on this. I’m not sure how it’ll turn out. We’ll have to unravel that as we go. I don’t wanna give you a answer, and then it fails.
What is your opinion on marijuana policy? It is interesting to note that veterans and other people use cannabis as a therapeutic tool. Most states have legalized cannabis in some way. Would you support federal legislation on legalization?
ML If it were only for medical purposes, I would not vote for it.
MM: What do you think about banking reform for cannabis? If the Senate passes it, as its leaders hope to do, you may see this in your chambers next year.
ML I will definitely listen to that. I’m a very optimistic person. I mean, don’t get me wrong. I get it. I will read it. Sure, if it makes perfect sense and is for the benefit of this country and for the improvement of this area. We’ll see how that turns out.
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